THE AHMED DEEDAT - DR. SHORROSH DEBATE

On September 8th, 1977, Ahmed Deedat debated with Dr. Shorrosh, a young Arab Christian, the claims of the Bible and of the Koran to be God's Word. The Debate took place in Birmingham Town Hall, 12,000 Moslems being present, but only 200 Christians. During the Debate a student from the Swansea Bible College to whom I had given photocopies of lectures on "Christ or Mohammed? - The Bible or the Koran?" took with him the challenge I present on pages 22, 23 to any Moslems, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, rationalist Bible critic, to prove:

(1)

that the Laws, which come to us in God's Name, and which make perfect obedience to His commands to love Him and our neighbours, the condition of Eternal Life; and pronounce His curse on every transgressor, are not Divine Laws, but forgeries in His Name (Deut. 6:5; Lev. 19:18; Lev. 18:5; Deut. 26:27);

(2)

that the claims of Christ, as presented to us in the gospels, to be the incarnate Son of God, and the only Saviour of sinners by His death and resurrection, were not made BY Him, but FOR Him, by His disciples, or Paul, or the early Christian communities (the latest theory);

(3)

that the many First Advent Messianic Prophecies, which history proves were all literally fulfilled in the birth, life, death, resurrection and ascension of Christ, were not so fulfilled;

(4)

that the Jews forged evidences against themselves in support of the Christian doctrines of God as Triune; of Christ as a Divine-human Saviour; of the Holy Spirit as the Third Person of the Godhead, in the Old Testament Scriptures (Gen. 1:1-26; Is. 9:6; Ps. 110-4; Zech. 13:7; Is. 63:10; Ez. 3:24);

(5)

that in the case of Messianic Prophecies, they forged evidences against themselves of rejecting and crucifying their Messiah, and of His acceptance by the Gentiles (Is. 53; 4:7; Mic. 5:1; Dan. 9:26; Zech. 12:10; and Is. 42:1-6; 49: 1-7; Gen. 49:10);

(6)

that all the personal prophecies of Christ concerning His Church, the Jewish nation, and present day events and conditions, were falsely attributed to Him by His disciples, who, as forgers and deceivers, were nevertheless, able to secure the literal fulfilment of all those prophecies, and in the case of the Church - a continuing fulfilment for nearly 2,000 years - from the Day of Pentecost until our own day (Mt. 8:11; 13; 16:18; 24).

Having looked at these evidences, Mr. Deedat said: "I'm an old man; I'm 60 years old, and I cannot answer all those questions."

"That confession finished him," friends present told me. The Moslems refused to pay him the £25,000 promised had he not so greatly disappointed them. In their Video recording, they omitted all reference to this challenge, and Mr. Deedat's confession that he could not meet it.

Ahmed Deedat and the Scriptures

In his book "Choice" Mr. Deedat claims to have discovered 50,000 errors in the Bible. There is not one doctrinal error.

Since the Koran in 21 Suras, and 35 verses, says it was sent to confirm the Scriptures, this chapter of Deedat's is a charge against the Koran, of saying in 21 Suras, and in 35 verses, it was sent to confirm as "the unalterable word of God", a book containing 50,000 errors!

These Suras and verses are: "Adoration" v. 244; "The Cow", vs. 50, 70, 82; "Houd", v. 20; "Ta Ha", v. 133; "The Prophets", vs. 7, 49; "Al Furkan", v. 37; "The Ranks", v. 117; "The Believers", v. 56; "The Night Journey", vs. 2, 57; "The Table", vs. 19, 47-52, 72; "Mary", v. 31; "Iron", v. 27; "The Family of Imran", vs. 2, 22, 76, 78; "Cattle", vs. 92, 155; "Al Ahkaf", v. 168; "Counsel", vs. 16, 18; "Jonah", v. 94; "The Kneeling", v. 15.

In two Suras the Koran says it is no new revelation: "Al Ahkaf", v. 8, "The Made Plain", v. 43.

Four Suras say the Word of God cannot be changed: "Cattle", vs. 35, 115; "Joseph", v. 65; "The Cave", v. 26.

Since Moslems always in speaking to Christians say, "Your Scriptures have been altered since the Koran commends them as the word of God, and they appeal to Jn. 14:16 as a supposed proof, it is necessary to mention these four verses to them.

But it is necessary also to present to them the irrefutable evidences which prove our present day Scriptures are doctrinally the same as they were when Mohammed in 35 verses of the Koran, said it was sent to confirm them. To all the other evidences we gave in Chapter 8 of volume 1, we here add:

Father we thank Thee who has planted
    Thy holy name within our hearts.
Knowledge and faith and life immortal
    Jesus The Son to us imparts.

Thou, Lord, didst make all for Thy pleasure,
    Didst give man food for all his days,
Giving in Christ the bread eternal;
    Thine is the power, be Thine the praise.

Watch o'er Thy Church, O Lord, in mercy,
    Save it from evil, guard it still,
Perfect it in Thy love, unite it,
    Cleansed and conformed unto Thy will.


As grain, once scattered on the hillsides,
    Was in the broken bread made one,
So from all lands Thy Church be gathered
    Into Thy kingdom by Thy Son.


From the Didache, AD 40-60,
(Bishop Robinson, "Redating the New Testament")
versified by F. Bland Tucker, 1895

Shepherd of eager youth,
    Guiding in love and truth
Through devious ways,
Christ our triumphant King,
We come Thy name to sing,
And here we children bring,
    Our songs of praise.

Thou art our holy Lord,
The all-subduing Word,
    Healer of strife;
Thou didst Thyself abase,
That from our sin's disgrace
Thou mightest save our race
    And give us life.

Ever be Thou our Guide,
Our shepherd, and our pride.
    Our staff and song.
Jesus, Thou Christ of God,
By Thy eternal word,
Lead us where Thou hast trod;
    Make our faith strong.

Clement of Alexandria AD 150-215

The Father of an infinite majesty:
Thine honourable true and only Son,
also the Holy Ghost the Comforter.

Thou art the King of glory O Christ:
Thou art the everlasting Son of the Father.

When Thou tookest upon Thee to deliver man:
Thou didst not abhor the Virgin's womb.

When Thou hadst overcome the sharpness of death:
Thou didst open the kingdom of heaven to all believers.

Thou sittest at the right hand of God:
In the glory of the Father.

We believe that Thou:
Shalt come to be our Judge.

We therefore pray Thee help They servants:
Whom Thou hast redeemed with Thy precious blood.

2nd or 3rd Century

Hail, gladdening Light, of his pure glory pour'd,
Who is the immortal Father, heav'nly, blest,
Holiest of holies, Jesus Christ our Lord!
Now we are come to the sun's hour of rest.
The lights of evening round us shine,
We hymn the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit divine.
Worthiest art thou at all times to be sung
With undefiled tongue,
Son of our God, giver of life, alone:
Therefore in all the world thy glories, Lord, they own.
Greek, 3rd Century

I bind unto myself to-day
The strong name of the Trinity,
By invocation of the same,
The Three in One and One in Three.

I bind this day to me for ever,
By power of faith, Christ's incarnation;
His baptism in the Jordan river;
His death on cross for my salvation;
His bursting from the spiced tomb;
His riding up the heavenly way;
His coming at the day of doom:
I bind unto myself today.

I bind unto myself today
The power of God to hold and lead
His eye to watch, His might to stay,
His ear to hearken to my need,
The wisdom of my God to teach,
His hand to guide, His shield to ward,
The word of God to give me speech,
His heavenly host to be my guard.

Christ be with me, Christ within me,
Christ behind me, Christ before me,
Christ beside me, Christ to win,
Christ to comfort and restore me,
Christ beneath me, Christ above me,
Christ in quiet, Christ in danger,
Christ in hearts of all that love me,
Christ in mouth of friend and stranger.

I bind unto myself the name,
The strong name of the Trinity,
By invocation of the same,
The Three in One, and One in Three,
Of whom all nature hath creation,
Eternal Father, Spirit, Word.
Praise to the Lord of my salvation:
Salvation is of Christ the Lord.

Attributed to St. Patrick, 385-461

O Jesus, Lord of heavenly grace,
Thou brightness of Thy Father's face,
Thou fountain of eternal light
Whose beams disperse the shades of night;

Come, holy sun of heavenly love,
Send down Thy radiance from above,
And to our inmost hearts convey
Thy Holy Spirit's cloudless ray.

O Christ, with each returning morn
Thine image to our hearts is borne;
O may we ever clearly see
Our Saviour and our God in Thee.

St. Ambrose, 340-97

O splendour of God's glory bright,
Who bringest forth the light from light;
O Light of light, light's fountain-spring;
O Day, our days enlightening;

Come, very Sun of truth and love,
Come in Thy radiance from above,
And shed the Holy Spirit's ray
On all we think or do to-day.

All praise to God the Father be,
All praise, eternal Son, to Thee,
Whom with the Spirit we adore,
For ever and for evermore. Amen.

St. Ambrose, 340-97

From east to west, from shore to shore,
Let every heart awake and sing
The holy Child whom Mary bore,
The Christ, the everlasting King.

Behold, the world's Creator wears
The form and fashion of a slave;
Our very flesh our Maker shares,
His fallen creature, man, to save.

For this how wondrously He wrought!
A maiden, in her lowly place,
Became, in ways beyond all thought,
The chosen vessel of His grace.

Caelius Sedulius, died c. 450

Of the Father's love begotten
    Ere the worlds began to be,
He is alpha and omega,
    He the source, the ending He,
Of the things that are, that have been
    And that future years shall see:
    Evermore and evermore.

By His word was all created;
    He commanded and 'twas done;
Earth and sky and boundless ocean,
    Universe of three in one,
All that sees the moon's soft radiance,
    All that breathes beneath the sun.
    Evermore and evermore.

This is He whom seers in old time
    Chanted of with one accord,
Whom the voices of the prophets
    Promised in their faithful word;
Now He shines, the long-expected;
    Let creation praise its Lord.
    Evermore and evermore.

Now let old and young uniting
    Chant to Thee harmonious lays;
Maid and matron hymn Thy glory,
    Infant lips their anthems raise,
Boys and girls together singing
    With pure heart their song of praise.
    Evermore and evermore.

O ye heights of heaven, adore Him;
    Angel hosts, His praises sing;
All dominions, bow before Him,
    And extol our God and King;
Let no tongue on earth be silent,
    Every voice in concert sing.
    Evermore and evermore.

Aurelius Prudentius, 348-413

Taken from:
F.S. Copleston
The Testimony of Believers and Unbelievers to the Truth of Christianity
Islam's Challenge Series (Volume 2), Chapter 14, pp. 121-127.

Volume 1:
Christ or the Mohammed? The Bible or the Koran?
ISBN 1-871703-00-X, First Edition 1989, Second Edition 1995

Authenticity of the Bible
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